{E3397} SPEECH OF

     E3397  HON. PAUL SIMON OF ILLINOIS

     E3397  IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

     E3397  Thursday, April 28, 1977

     E3397  The House in Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union 
had under consideration the bill (H.R. 2) to provide for the cooperation between
the Secretary of the Interior and the States with respect to the regulation of
surface coal mining operations, and the acquisition and reclamation of abandoned
mines, and for other purposes.

     E3397  Mr. SIMON.  Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the requisite number of
words.

     E3397  Mr. Chairman, I direct some questions to my colleague from Arizona, 
the chairman of the committee.  I have to confess that there is some confusion
on my part here, and I hope we can clarify this matter.  I am concerned about
subsidence.  It is a problem in my district in southern Illinois, and it is
going to be a greater problem.

     E3397  I submitted an amendment and discussed it with the chairman of the
committee.  He indicated that he would oppose the amendment, which would have
had the effect of an additional 1 cent fund for subsidence, and a fund
specifically to be used for subsidence problems.  As I read the act, the
Secretary, under section 407, can reclaim surface impacts of underground or
surface mines so that the Secretary can act.  Then, when I look at what the
States can do, I see that the States can protect from subsidence on page 210,
section 404.  But, it does not say what they can do after the subsidence takes
place.

     E3397  Then, there is a second part of the question, and I say this having 
come from a caucus of the Budget Committee, where we have a few problems also,
but as I see the question, and in my brief conversation with the members of the 
staff, even if this protection from subsidence can be viewed as the impact from 
subsidence, yet funds cannot be used.

     E3397  For example, for a school building in my district where there is a
huge crack in the building and we want to get that fixed, it is a poor school
district and they cannot get insurance.

     E3397  Mr. UDALL.  Let me take up the gentleman's questions in order.  In
the first place, I want to make the record clear.  This is a broad gage fund.
This is designed to help overcome all the devastations and different kinds of
surface damages from underground mining.  Those include subsidence, acid waste
drainage, waste bank fires, the whole range of kinds of things, and not just
going out and planting trees and putting topsoil back on.

     E3397  With respect to the second point, we have found that time after time
people want to get more and more into this fund.  We had the people out West a
few moments ago trying to get us to build schools, hospitals, roads, front end
impact money.  We had to draw a line.

     E3397  What we are saying is that if we repair damage for the subsidence,
cut back underground, do whatever is needed so that we do not have further
subsidence, we do not think we ought to go beyond that to build the school for
the gentleman.  I recognize it is a serious problem, but we will set a precedent
if we open the door here.

     E3397  Mr. SIMON.  So, again to clarify, the fund can fix the land, but it 
cannot repair the school?

     E3397  Mr. UDALL.  That is correct.

     E3397  Mr. SIMON.  So that those of us who feel that we ought to be
repairing schools - and I see my colleague from Indiana who, if he has not had
problems already, soon will be - those of us who feel something like this ought 
to be done will have to amend the act sometime in the future if it passes in its
present form.

     E3397  Mr. UDALL.  Yes.  And I did not think it would drain too much from
the major purposes, which are to reclaim the land.  This is a land reclamation
program.  If there were some excess, or enough of them in the fund to take care 
of these things.  I am for education, too, and I would like to help.

     E3397  Mr. SIMON.  If this bill passes and is signed by the President, I
may be back to the gentleman's committee for an amendment to the act.